Episode 2

♪ ♪ BATES: The Post Office computer system is faulty.

No one else has ever reported any problems.

♪ ♪ WOMAN (on phone): You're responsible for the loss.

JO: I haven't got that money!

HARVEY: The Horizon system was working properly.

The losses must have been caused by Mr. Castleton's own error.

How many other subpostmasters have you found?

Six, who will go on the record.

BATES: I'm thinking, set up a meeting, send out invitations, see if anyone turns up.

The Post Office told us, "You're the only one."

That was a lie.

And from this moment forwards, none of us will be the only one ever again.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I just think you made a mistake, Sam.

(lock turns) I know, but they said if I pleaded guilty, I could have the shop back.

How is that ever gonna work?

You'll be a convicted criminal.

Look.

I'm your husband, and I have to read about this in the newspaper?

I was on my own in the interview.

And I thought I was doing the right thing-- Jas!

Please!

You're an innocent woman.

You should have pleaded not guilty, like we agreed.

Come on, we're gonna be late.

(engine starts) They'll have started without us.

♪ ♪ NOEL: It was unbelievable.

The lowest day of my life.

(others murmuring) (door opens) JAS: Um, hi.

Uh, sorry, um, we're late.

Um, got a bit lost.

Sorry, uh... Are, are you... Is this... We're all former subpostmasters.

Come in, it's okay.

Please, uh, find, find a seat.

Uh, I'm Jas Singh.

I'm Sam, from Walsall.

Yeah, Walsall.

BATES: Well, we're all sharing our stories.

Uh... (stammers): I don't know if you want to... (whispering): Go on-- go on.

I had no problems till they sent us a new Horizon PIN pad.

They just won't have it that there's something wrong with the thing.

They say I'm piggy-backing.

Going into the till to pay out a pension with one hand and paying myself with the other.

BATES: I'm guessing they also said you were the only ones having these problems.

(others murmuring) LEE: Yeah, and I'm guessing they said the same to everyone else in this room, right?

I'm such a fool, I believed them.

I believed them.

When they said, "Just confess you took that £5,000, Sam, and you'll be back in your shop tomorrow."

You shouldn't have done that.

It was, it was the new PIN pad, it wasn't your fault.

It wasn't, it wasn't her fault.

(others murmuring) JO: Actually, I pleaded guilty, too.

So did I.

Wait, you did.

I can't believe it, I, I thought we were on our own, you know?

Not anymore.

SAM: I'm a mother.

I don't want to go to prison.

JAS: No, we're changing your plea.

Okay?

You're not guilty.

And this time, I am coming to court with you.

Hey.

Now, if you're thinking of going to court, just be careful.

BATES: Well...

There are people here who've done time.

We, we've all lost our businesses and our savings.

(others murmuring) The question is, what are we going to do about it?

(others murmuring) ♪ ♪ MIN: MPs-- neither use nor ornament.

Mum, stop it.

Be nice.

Oh.

At least he's taking the trouble to turn up.

Um... Mrs. Hamilton?

That's me.

James Arbuthnot.

Thank you for coming.

My pleasure.

Do come in.

Jo's mum.

Hello.

JO: So, one way or another, we're all fighting back, every way we can.

We're even thinking about suing the Post Office.

I'd like to see you try, with no money.

Well, it's a good job talking to your MP costs absolutely nothing.

Is this homemade?

Well, it looks delicious-- thank you, I will.

We thought maybe you could talk to the government or something.

(chuckles) Yes, indeed.

There are two other cases in my constituency alone.

Wow, really?

It's very odd, isn't it?

I mean, the Post Office is a national institution.

You'd think you could trust them to listen to their own people.

Personally, Mr. Arbuthnot...

Uh, James, please.

...I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I'm going to ask around the House, see how many members are hearing similar stories, make an approach to Post Office management at the highest level.

I think I feel a campaign coming on.

♪ ♪ Oh, that's lovely.

Mm!

SALHAN: And so my client, Mrs. Kaur, seeks permission to change her plea to not guilty.

This is because she had no solicitor with her during her interview under caution and because there is also a technical issue, which you may consider requires expert evidence, concerning a PIN pad.

I can't see anything here.

Her PIN pad was faulty!

Quiet, please.

DELLON: Very well, Mrs. Kaur.

I vacate your plea.

How do you now plead?

(mouths) Not guilty.

♪ ♪ (breath trembles) (sniffs) SUZANNE: Is that him?

The so-called trade unionist?

He's got a bloody nerve.

BATES: Federation man.

A federation man who calls out of nowhere.

How do we know we can trust him?

We don't.

(car door closes) Michael.

Hi, Alan.

Found us, then?

Yeah-- never even heard of Fenny Compton.

(people talking in background) BATES: All right, everyone, shall we make a start?

Shall we make a start?

Thanks.

Right, so, welcome to the second meeting of the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance.

Now, before we get on to our campaign update, uh, we have a guest who'd like permission to speak.

This is Michael Rudkin, friends: an executive officer of the National Federation for Subpostmasters.

(others murmuring and groaning) (quietly): Not anymore.

LEE: The federation?

You know that the federation sent me back my membership fee, said they won't represent me?

They told me to get a good criminal lawyer.

And that was the last I heard of them.

NOEL: Our so-called union has been in bed with the Post Office for years!

Right, I can either leave by the way I came in or I can tell you my story.

Up to you, pal.

Now, you think you're the little guys facing up to one powerful enemy-- you're wrong.

Post Office don't make the computers, do they?

You know, they don't design the kit.

They don't write the software.

They don't run the network.

That's Fujitsu.

A multinational corporation.

Headquarters in Bracknell.

I've been there.

I've seen what they can do.

Two years ago, I got myself an invitation to Fujitsu to sort out the issue with the foreign exchange stock control that we were all having problems with.

Hiya-- Michael Rudkin to see George Delph.

Thanks, mate.

(voiceover): 19th of August 2008.

Cheers-- thanks, mate.

Mr. Rudkin?

George Delph-- hi.

Hi-- good to meet you.

And you.

Welcome to Fujitsu.

Cheers.

Hm?

Like to follow me?

(elevator doors close) Horizon is the largest I.T.

system in Europe.

We're very proud of that.

Outside the military, that is.

(elevator doors open) It cost a billion pounds.

We rolled out 40,000 terminals to your members.

(keypad beeping) So this accounts for all the James Bond stuff, does it?

(chuckles, keypad beeps) MICHAEL (voiceover): All I'm expecting is, they'll give me a bit of training I can pass on.

(door beeping) MICHAEL: Oh, right.

State-of-the-art everything.

That must be why a lot of my members have been complaining about your rubbish foreign exchange stock control.

(laughs): We can help.

A lot of my members have been losing money.

Oh, the bottom line.

Me included.

♪ ♪ Meet your friendly covert operations team.

MICHAEL (voiceover): I get in there, and this guy sits me down at a Horizon terminal.

All right, so, easiest way to help is if I just show you how to adjust your stock control manually.

And I said to him, "Is this live?"

DELPH: Sure-- look at the clock.

♪ ♪ So, if I start by adjusting this from sterling to euros... MICHAEL (voiceover): And I said to him... You're inside some subpostmaster's Horizon, and he doesn't know.

He said, "Yeah."

(others gasp, murmur) "Yeah, I am."

How else am I gonna show you how to do this?

MICHAEL (voiceover): And then, right in front of my eyes, he starts changing the subpostmaster's figures.

MICHAEL: Excuse me.

Hm.

I've been telling my members for years no one else has access to their branch accounts.

Uh, okay, well, um, I'd better put the figures back the way they were, then, or they won't balance tonight.

♪ ♪ MICHAEL: Ladies and gentlemen, you know what this means.

It means they can sneak in behind your back, change your figures, bugger off, and leave with no trace.

(gasping, murmuring) It's remote access.

Well, I mean, that makes sense.

It's how they send updates and bug fixes.

LEE: No, no, no.

The helpline, they said that...

They said that was impossible.

They said that the branch accounts were totally secure, that's what they told me.

(others murmur) They lied.

JO: But if they're getting into our accounts and messing about in there... Then it's a bit rich for them to claim that we have 100% responsibility when money goes missing.

Exactly.

(others exclaim) So, I drive home from Fujitsu.

The next morning, I wake up, and my wife is stood at the foot of our bed, and there's an auditor beside her.

"Your post office is now £44,000 in deficit," says he.

(others gasp) Coincidence?

Revenge.

MICHAEL: My wife ran the post office when I was away on federation business.

So, although I was the subpostmaster, my poor wife is now a convicted criminal.

(others murmur and gasp) You're welcome.

(others murmuring) JO: Wait.

Mr. Rudkin, thank you.

Thank you.

That won't do any good.

(door opens) (door closes) (others murmuring) ♪ ♪ LEE: So, they punished him.

They punished him for standing up to 'em.

It's what they did to me.

They, they knew I had to fight them, but they knew I didn't stand a chance.

They just did it to teach me a lesson.

To teach everyone in this room a lesson.

That's what we're up against.

That is what we're up against!

♪ ♪ SALHAN: The Post Office are still investigating, so it's gonna take a bit longer than we thought, as it's now 36 charges.

(breathing rapidly) How many?

36 charges.

No-- no, no, that's totally wrong.

I've got the indictment right here, Jas.

It's definitely now 36 charges.

But it was, it was 19.

Where have all these new ones come from?

Sam!

I don't know-- I don't remember.

And what about this?

Her shortfall.

It's now £11,000.

That's, that's more than doubled.

You're selling everyone stamps with a picture of the queen on them.

And we love the queen, don't we?

(quietly): Is she all right?

Yeah, yeah, it's just, all these delays, they're doing both our heads in.

(breathing rapidly) SALHAN: Jas, I think we should get a medical report.

When cases go on and on like this, it can be hard for the defendant.

She's fine.

(breathing rapidly) I'll just go and see if they're ready for us.

♪ ♪ Everyone's eyes are on me.

It's okay.

(phone calling out) (ringing) JAS: Sam, can you get the phone?

(ringing continues) Hello?

Oh!

It's Jo.

Gosh, you had me worried there.

I'm just checking in on you.

Are you okay?

(voice trembling): I'm up and down.

Are you getting out at all?

Oh, I can't go out.

Not to the gurdwara.

Not even to the supermarket.

I see people I know, and sometimes, they look surprised to see me, and I wonder, do they think I've gone to prison already?

Oh, Sam, if...

If I just had the money for a stupid train ticket.

(chuckles) I wouldn't be much fun for you, Jo.

(metal bangs) Oh, God!

Sam!

What is it?

It's okay, it's okay, I'm all right, Jo.

It's just the postman.

Every time the door goes, I think it's them come to get me.

Oh... Oh, you poor thing.

JO: I had no idea this was happening to other people.

I thought I was the only one.

There were nights I was just sobbing, didn't know what to do, how to get out of this mess.

It sounds like it was very traumatic for you.

Well, it's not just me that it's traumatic for.

(on computer): I just think that the Post Office needs to investigate this.

There's just got to be something else going on, 'cause it can't be happening to this many people.

Thank you.

Jo was great.

(chuckles) She's a natural.

Mmm, yeah, but who's listening?

REPORTER: Mr. Arbuthnot, how concerned are you about these allegations against the Post Office?

I'm very concerned about this.

Cases seem to be cropping up all over the country.

And who knew a Tory MP could be so nice?

(both chuckle) ARBUTHNOT: The Post Office have been, I think, pretty hard-nosed in the way they've taken the cases to court.

Trouble is, nobody watches local news.

And I think their bosses need to think again and be more sympathetic.

(phones ringing in background) ♪ ♪ (phones ringing, people talking in background) Be ready.

(voiceover): There are a tiny number of ex-subpostmasters who appear to be making distinct allegations with respect to the operation of the Horizon system.

But in two of the cases, the individuals have, in the past, pleaded guilty to false accounting.

I have written back to the member of Parliament making clear that Post Office Limited does not accept any of the allegations that are being made, and will robustly defend its position if any civil action is mounted against it.

BATES: Freedom of information!

Just when you think you've cracked it, they come up with a new trick to keep us in the dark.

Listen to this.

You're only allowed a question, to ask a question, that will take one person less than 18 hours to research.

I mean, what?

What do you think?

Hey.

Trying to have a life here, Alan.

(chuckles) I...

I just want to be able to take you on holiday again, Suzanne.

You know, a proper holiday.

Abroad, not just camping.

And there's still half of Snowdonia waiting to be climbed.

A: The Post Office has taken all our money.

B: My knees are way too old for Snowdon now.

And C: You can't possibly go on holiday.

You're too busy campaigning, morning, noon, and night.

This is all taking too long.

♪ ♪ My next guest is famous for pranking the nation with his... (TV audio fades) ♪ ♪ (TV continues faintly) (lock turning) Hiya.

Are you okay?

Sorry I'm late.

(inhales sharply) (gasps softly) JAS: Got held up, Sam.

Dev's gone to... (breath shaking) (whispering): It's okay.

Sam?

Sam, what, what you... Sam!

I had to do something.

(softly): It's okay.

It's okay.

Sam, what you done?

Why have you done this?

(shouting): Huh?

It's not fair.

Sam, look at me-- what... (phone buttons beeping) (mumbling, repeating): I had to do something.

OPERATOR (on phone): 999-- which service do you require?

Yeah, I need an ambulance, please.

It's, uh, 45 Falfield Road, Walsall WS2 9WB.

(softly): It's okay.

B for Bravo.

It's not fair.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (crying): I don't want it.

They're here to help you.

I don't want it!

They're here to help you, okay?

Shh... (sobbing): I tried everything, Jas!

It's...

I know, I know.

I tried everything!

I worked... JAS: It's okay, I'm here.

(speaks softly) (shouting): Hey, can you stop staring at us?

Just mind your own business!

SAM (weakly): Jas.

(Sam crying) JAS: Sam, come on-- it's okay, Sam!

JAS: What's the next one?

DEV: Uh, it's candy.

JAS: Candy-- okay, see if you can find it.

He's doing well, yeah.

He'll be doing the spelling bee soon.

(chuckles): Hey?

(knock at door) Hello.

Mr. Singh?

Yeah, yeah.

Can I have a word?

Yeah, um... Two minutes and then burgers, okay?

Hey, how you doing?

PSYCHIATRIST: I want to stress, she'll be sedated.

She won't feel anything.

E.C.T.

had a lot of bad press at one point, but we continue to find it very useful in giving relief to patients as severely depressed as Saman.

And nothing else we've tried has worked, so... Just don't go home and google it, Mr. Singh.

We'll talk more later.

Yeah.

♪ ♪ Like you're not gonna google it.

JAS (on phone): I know.

It's mad.

But you know the worst thing, Jo?

If I'd have let her carry on pleading guilty, like she wanted to in the first place, all right, yeah, she, she might have gone to prison, but... She'd be out by now.

Oh, Jas.

My boy would have a mother.

And Sam would be free.

(machine beeping) Treat.

(beeping) ♪ ♪ (sirens wailing in distance) PAULA: The problem is relatively very small.

Very few complaints.

But this is a very serious matter for the Post Office, whose business rests on our reputation for being trustworthy.

Well, we all represent constituents who tell us that your helpline is of little value, that the training you offer is minimal.

Angela is our head of network services.

Thank you-- um... Well, the helpline and support are there.

Now, whether the staff take it up or not, that, that's another matter.

Mrs. Vennells, is the Post Office saying that Horizon is 100% foolproof?

Because that would make it the first perfect software system ever implemented by government.

The system is robust.

Mmm.

Gentlemen, we have nothing to hide.

Indeed, we're ready to mount and fund an independent review.

Well, that's marvelous.

And I'm sure Mr. Bates and the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance will be thrilled to get involved with that.

♪ ♪ BOB: Bet you've missed me, Susan.

How is life in the sleepy old Post Office?

(chuckling): Sleepy?

I wish.

High finance misses you, kid.

(chuckling): I'm a proud public servant now.

Well, I'll wager it's not half as much fun as your old life, chasing down villains and fraudsters with me.

Susan... Is that what we're doing here?

I don't know-- that's why I hired you.

Ah.

SUSAN: Angela van den Bogerd is head of network services.

Bob Rutherford from Second Sight.

Angela, nice to meet you.

Here to help.

We've pulled a dozen files for you to look at.

It's all the cases the MPs have been pushing.

Anything else you want, though, we can provide.

Accounts, procedures, backgrounds-- I'll draw up a list.

Hm.

And I'd like to visit Fujitsu in Bracknell.

No problem.

Oh, are... Are you not staying?

Ah... Knowing you of old, Bob, I imagine you're itching to get on the road.

(chuckles) BOB: Thank you, all!

JO (on phone): Alan, you can't go and meet him on your own.

Because how will you know what to ask this investigator?

(sighs) And because she's my neighbor, and she's really nice and she wants to help.

Kay Linnell.

Past master and liveryman.

JO: Kay Linnell, forensic accountant.

Alan, bite her hand off!

Alan?

Alan Bates?

(chuckles) Kay Linnell, past master and liveryman of the Worshipful Company of Arbitrators.

You've been looking me up!

And Board of the Inland Revenue's former chief prosecuting and investigating accountant.

Now, that was a fun job.

(chuckles) Shall we?

ARBUTHNOT: May I underline that although the Post Office has agreed to fund this independent investigation, Mr. Rutherford's organization, Second Sight, will be working for us, the MPs.

And therefore, indirectly, for you, Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance.

BOB: So... Alan, Kay, what would you like to know?

Well, I'd like to know exactly what makes you think you're qualified to do this job.

Well, I'm a forensic accountant of many years' experience...

I don't doubt your paper qualifications, Mr. Rutherford.

I have them here in front of me.

But I see nothing to persuade me that Second Sight is remotely capable of producing a truly independent report.

One that's ready to bite the hand that feeds you.

ARBUTHNOT: Bob Rutherford is a member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.

He has led hundreds of investigations all over the world into banking fraud, corruption, rogue traders, subprime mortgages...

Doesn't answer my question.

How can we be sure you will investigate fairly and independently?

Because the people who suggested me know me of old.

And that they want to hire me because they know what I like to do best, which is to clear innocent people who look guilty.

BATES: I still don't see how we can trust him when he's taking Post Office money.

Well, you can't pay him.

Can't pay you, either!

(chuckles) I'll help in my spare time.

What I really need is lawyers who'll work for nothing.

(chuckles): One day, you'll find your precious lawyers, and we'll get this scandal into court.

But we'll need evidence, which mortals like us haven't a hope of getting our hands on.

But Bob's outfit, Second Sight, they'll have access to seven years of raw data.

This Bob, he can't just look at individual cases, though.

He, he has to look at Horizon as a whole.

As a system.

Am I to take it you're happy to support his investigation?

Well...

Being as it's the only one we've got.

(chuckles) ♪ ♪ JO: When I first came to the Post Office, they were introducing chip and PIN, and it never worked properly.

The base unit, the Horizon computer, whatever you call it... Mm-hmm.

(chuckling): ...the thing that sits under the counter, I thought of it as, like, an alien thing.

Sometimes, engineers would come from Fujitsu, their clever badges on.

Um, I never had any idea what they were doing.

(exhales softly) This is probably a really stupid question, Bob.

There are no such things as stupid questions, only stupid answers.

That £36,000 I'm supposed to have lost.

Where did it go?

I haven't got it.

So who has?

I don't know.

But I'm going to find out.

♪ ♪ (sighs) MICHAEL: It's a bed and breakfast now.

We're private people, Bob.

This was our family home.

But the Post Office gave us no option, no other way of making a living.

Thank you.

Cheers, love.

My wife has had it so much harder than me.

Susan was in charge while I was away on federation business.

Hm.

She never told me, so I had no idea she was in trouble.

Even though at least half my work in the federation was Horizon-related by then.

I said to her... "You've ruined my (muted) career.

You've destroyed our business."

Mr. Rudkin, please don't feel obliged to divul...

I said... (whispering): I said I'd divorce her.

♪ ♪ Now, they punished my wife, who never stole a penny piece, just because I got inside Fujitsu and saw something that I shouldn't have.

♪ ♪ LEE: I think what I had was a computer bug.

I think they've called it a Callendar Square bug.

I can't be sure.

But it was real.

It was real-- other people had it.

You know, I tried, I tried to tell the court that.

And I just kept sort of saying it wrong.

And the more I tried, the more...

I can't explain it.

What it was like, I was on the edge of a great, dark hole.

I was, I was just falling into it.

The thing is, I knew that they were lying, and I knew I was telling the truth.

And I just thought, this is British justice.

That's all I've got to do, is tell the truth.

(whimpers) But...

Sorry.

Oh, no, no, no, no, God, no!

Sorry that I'm... God, no!

Don't let me upset you, I was just trying to tell you... (sniffles): No.

(exhales, chuckles) No, it's just the more of you people I meet, the less I, uh, I know how you're all still standing.

♪ ♪ Yeah.

(sniffles, clears throat) Susan?

Am I expecting you today?

We need to speak now.

Always good to see an old friend, but I do have a diary.

Not today, you don't.

Lee Castleton.

You know, the one you hounded all the way to the Royal Courts of Justice... That was my predecessors.

...when you knew he didn't have any money.

You have humiliated him, you have bankrupted him, and I don't get it.

Yes, I, I don't know why we did that.

Well, let me suggest two reasons: one, you're stupid.

(gasps) Or two, you want to rub his nose in the dirt, use him to frighten off everyone else.

I wasn't even here then!

Oh, please.

What is wrong with you people?

Are we ever to see the PIN pad that Mrs. Kaur alleges was responsible for her shortfalls?

Your Honor, I can now confirm that Post Office Limited is unable to produce the PIN pad in question.

Because?

I'm told it was sent away for repair and has been reprogrammed.

DELLON: So it was faulty?

In those circumstances, Your Honor, the prosecution offers no evidence.

DELLON: This matter has dragged on for three years.

I direct that a not guilty verdict be entered on all 36 counts on the indictment.

Mrs. Kaur, you are free to leave.

BAILIFF: Court rise.

♪ ♪ (people talking in background) (softly): Congratulations!

♪ ♪ Hey-- see?

You were right.

It was faulty.

Sam, three years of our lives, but it's over now, okay?

No, because they won't ever put another picture in the paper, will they?

To say I'm innocent?

♪ ♪ Come on.

ARBUTHNOT: We're making progress.

Now the investigation is properly up and running, I just thought, enough go-betweens.

Thought a good idea to bring you two together.

I do hope it's been useful for both of you.

Terrific idea.

Thank you, James, and, Alan, I do hope you'll take away from this a sure understanding that Post Office is as fully committed as you are to resolving this situation.

Thank you.

And, um, if there's anything else...

Uh, no, I, I think that's...

Uh, actually...

Uh, why are you only looking at 12 cases?

Well, they are the 12 cases put forward by members of Parliament.

All the cases where we are alert to the possibility of miscarriage of justice.

There are a lot more, though, Paula.

Victims who were never charged with any criminal offense.

But perhaps your people haven't told you about that.

About all the destitution?

People sleeping in their cars, losing their house, their health?

Surely, you'd like to hear from them, too.

(chuckles) Is that your throwaway exit line?

(chuckles) I was just thinking, you know, if you knew the full story, you wouldn't want that on your conscience, so... Well, shall I suggest a few names?

Mm...

Uh, yes, um... Good idea.

These are what I have here.

♪ ♪ (phone ringing) Bob-- good to hear from you.

BOB: Hi there.

The day you went to Fujitsu, are you sure it was the 19th of August?

Uh, 2008, yeah-- never forget that.

The last day of our old life.

Michael, you're not down as a visitor on their security logs.

Post Office are denying that your visit ever happened.

Course they are.

Can you prove it?

(breathes audibly) Michael, can you prove you were there?

Bob, it was four years ago!

I don't work for the Post Office anymore.

♪ ♪ Yeah.

(applauding) (chuckles): Look at your new best friend, pretending she can do a proper job.

PAULA (on TV): It's lovely to be here, thank you.

REPORTER: Paula, how often do you get to visit a place like this?

Probably once a month, if I can.

Oh, please!

REPORTER: I mean, you're the big boss, do you think they get intimidated?

PAULA (laughing): No.

This is the Post Office.

I get treated the same as everybody else, and they tell me how it is.

REPORTER: And what's it like being the chief executive of a major company?

Well, I think you can tell by the smile on my face that it's, it's great.

Retail is detail...

Shut up!

Shut up!

You silly cow!

(TV turns off) Come on, come on, get your breakfast.

♪ ♪ BOB: I shall present evidence to show that the Post Office has made failures in support, investigation, training, and I've found clear evidence of two bugs.

Two?

We gave you 47 cases-- 47!

Now, this draft report of yours only mentions three.

Where's Michael Rudkin, who can prove they're lying about remote access?

He can't prove it, actually.

ARBUTHNOT: Well, members of Parliament would certainly like to see more individual cases.

(pounds, exclaims): The point is not individual cases!

The point is total systemic failure, which you don't mention.

We haven't found hard evidence of that, either.

BATES: Well, what would you call the endless PIN pad anomalies, and shortfalls doubling before people's eyes, and overnight so-called corrections?

Well, there are 68,000 users processing six million transactions a day... (chuckling) Well, this is just the gospel according to the Post Office!

Alan... BOB: For it to be systemic, that would have to mean that the whole network was affected.

And it, it just isn't.

What about the way they abuse their power and prosecute people without investigating properly, and then, and then terminate them on three months' notice, and walk away with their life savings?

Is that not a systemic failure?

We all agreed from the beginning that the report should be accurate and evidence-based.

The Post Office has left a trail of destruction ever since the day that Horizon was introduced, and we're just sitting around chatting about it, while they're still ruining lives.

Systemically!

(chuckles) BATES (sighs): I agreed to this.

I must have been mad.

Welshmen with bees in their bonnets.

I was born in Liverpool.

He's an accountant, Alan-- he's naturally cautious.

Cautious like you?

I can be cautious!

It wasn't me in there banging the table.

I've never seen you angry before.

All that grandstanding, you mean?

I learnt that from you, Kay.

(laughs) Ah, I don't, I don't get angry.

I just get frustrated.

Second Sight are going to have to come up with something better than this.

♪ ♪ (phone ringing) (ringing stops) MICHAEL (on phone): Bob, how's it going?

BOB: Michael, good-- um, any luck?

It's been a long time-- a lot of water under the bridge.

Yeah, okay.

I understand.

But, uh, see attached.

(mouse clicks) (exhales) ♪ ♪ Oh, my (muted) good God!

Michael, thank you!

Thank you so much!

(phone ringing in background) So, Bob, I can confirm that in August 2008, the basement of Fujitsu's building in Bracknell did contain a Horizon test environment.

Note, a test environment.

And that's what we believe your subpostmaster Mr. Rudkin saw.

He got the wrong end of the stick.

The test environment wasn't physically connected to the live Horizon system, so it wasn't possible for the transactions he thought he saw to be real.

Got it-- thank you.

That's cleared that up.

Good.

I'll see you out.

Thank you for joining me by conference call.

I am sorry for the short notice in keeping the board updated.

The Horizon review interim report will be presented to MPs in one week's time.

The report has found no systemic issues with the Horizon computer system.

But I am concerned that the report from the independent forensic accountant is not as factual as expected and could lead to loose language.

♪ ♪ BATES: What are you?

Poacher turned gamekeeper?

This report of yours turns out to be not half-bad, considering.

(both chuckle) Faint praise.

I like it.

(chuckles) Oh, I just hope it makes a difference.

What got Michael Rudkin into the final version?

Mm, an email inviting him to Bracknell copied to seven named Post Office executives.

Hold on, so, first, they say he wasn't there.

Then they say he was there, but what, his, his glasses were broken?

(chuckling) I wonder if they even know they're talking bollocks.

Ah, welcome aboard, Bob.

Yeah, they still say that there's no remote access into your accounts.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm going to be able to prove that they're wrong and that you're right on this one.

Ah.

But, Alan, there are things, you know, documents that I've found in the Post Office files-- they're beyond belief.

Going to tell me more?

There's someone else I need to tell first.

Good morning!

Whoo!

Good morning, Mr. Frog!

JOSHUA: There he is!

MIN: There he is!

Let's say good morning.

Hello, all.

JO: Bob!

We're babysitting in the sunshine.

Ain't he gorgeous?

(laughs) I was hoping you'd be sitting somewhere quiet.

Yeah, I can do that, or I can put the kettle on.

(babbling) Oh, me and Joshua will put the kettle on.

Your investigator, Ryan Fleming.

The turd.

Did you ever see his report about you?

No.

17th of May 2006, he recorded that he had analyzed your Horizon accounts and was "unable to find any evidence of theft."

I pleaded guilty to false accounting instead.

Hm, yes.

No evidence means they had no right to charge you with theft, and therefore, no right to plea-bargain you down to false accounting.

Jo, no evidence means they had no right to take you to court at all.

♪ ♪ Everything I've gone through.

Everything I've lost.

(sobbing): Ten years of heartache and sleepless nights and always skint.

And they destroyed our whole life for a lie?

What kind of people are they?

REPORTER: The Second Sight report presented to MPs in Westminster today was expected to include criticism of the Horizon computer system and of the senior management at the Post Office.

But while the report does raise concerns about unreliable hardware and poor training, a Post Office spokesman said the investigation clearly shows its Horizon system as a whole is operating as it should.

MPs praised the Post Office for the way they've dealt with these difficult issues.

♪ ♪ (phone ringing) (button clicks) Alan Bates.

Alan, it's Paula Vennells.

Paula.

(whispers): Joking!

So, I was thinking... Where do we go from here?

Well, um, I've been thinking about that, too.

Well, great.

Should the two of us try and find a way forward?

If you want something done properly, do it yourself?

Exactly.

Well... How can I help?

♪ ♪ BATES: We will look into each case and fight our corner.

Do you trust 'em?

We need to talk.

I think they're wasting your time and mine.

If you walk away now, you'll never find out what happens at the end of the story.

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